Futurist(Mom)

Nancy Giordano: Hi, this is Nancy Ano.

I am an exponential futurist, uh, global speaker, author, and mother of three children that are all now grown and, uh, excited to introduce you to this world in which we weave the idea of being a future forward.

Parenting and understand how we can build, uh, pathways to the future with more confidence and hopefully take a deep breath.

And one of the keys, I think to that is really thinking about it from day one, how do we build confidence in the crib, if we will say?

So this episode, uh, really begins with this like, conversation around early, early child rearing from zero to three is a certain philosophy that I was introduced to when my children were babies.

And they, you know.

Raised this way of thinking.

Uh, and it has definitely shaped who they have become as young adults.

So today we get to speak to an expert in this field.

We're speaking to Deborah Carlisle Solomon.

She's a child development specialist, author, educator, and former executive director of Rye for eight years.

Um, many years ago, she has since moved on into her own private practice in Los Angeles.

Um, she wrote a book called Baby Knows Best, raising a Confident Resourceful Child, the R Way, RIE Way, uh, which introduces Magda Gerber's educating philosophy and really accessible terms.

And Magda Gerber is someone I was introduced to early on that was the founder of this work in the late 1970s, uh, in the Southern California area.

But I think now it's grown around the world and become, uh, certainly in.

Uh, in institutional settings, like more childcare centers or orphanages or in those kinds of places, considered best practices for how we
engage children, but it also has a direct impact in how we as parents interact with our children and take a deep breath and slow things down.

Um, so in this conversation we do, um, a, a, a real dance to partly understand why, but not from a super academic place, but from a. A storytelling place as to how it has impacted many of the families that she works with.

Some of the ahas that I had along the way and why it makes sense to spend time thinking about how we raise children at such an early age because of the impacts that these micro actions and sort of micro um, choices.

Have on who these people become as they grow up.

You know, one of Magda's big questions early on is if we are raising children for a world that's going to look so different into the future and we don't know what the jobs are going
to be, and we don't know what so many of the structures are going to be, what are the core capacities that child needs in order to be able to thrive in such a world of unknown?

And this idea of confidence and creativity and resilience and collaboration.

Were at the heart of her work.

So it starts with the day that we first pick up our child and we welcome them into the world.

And from then on we, we take a moment and introduce the world to them, uh, uh, slowly and lovingly.

So with that, I introduce you to Deborah Carlisle Solomon, and hope you enjoy this conversation.

I. So Deborah, I am so excited for you to be joining our conversation today.

You know, I have envisioned this podcast for many years and decided now would be the right time to do it.

But from day one, I wanted to have this conversation about r and this really to me insightful way of, of child rearing and parenting that I was introduced to very early on with my first child.

Not immediately, it took a little while, but once I found it, realized what a tremendous gift it was to me and to my family, and to the.

To world.

To be raising my children with a way of thinking that was introduced by this woman named Magda Gerber.

So thank you for jumping into this conversation both in your role as a former executive director of Rye many years ago, for eight years, right.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: and now in your practice with parents, and I'd love to hear more about the work that you do with them

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: you know, as a mom now of hopefully a thriving young adult,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: weaving all these things together as we introduce the world more broadly.

To this philosophy.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: you ready to roll?

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: I'm ready to roll.

I'm glad to be here.

Nancy Giordano: Again, I'm so glad you are.

So, let's just launch into, we talk about rye resources for infant educators.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: found that quite a mouthful

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: It is a mouthful.

Nancy Giordano: it to people, you know, and there was actually a moment early on, so I was introduced to this almost 30 what, 28, 27 years ago, with the organization tried to.

To even potentially help rebrand or help expand to make it more accessible for people.

And we just like, you know, the work never really took off and it didn't happen.

So it's interesting that this many years later, it's still resources for infant educators.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: it's a mouthful,

Nancy Giordano: It

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: but Magda, you know, spoke multiple languages and apparently educators just tripped off her tongue like it did for nobody else.

But yes.

Or why, why the acronym is commonly used, RIE and then people confuse it with REI, the sporting goods store.

So anyway, it has nothing to do with that.

Nancy Giordano: no.

I think there's an opportunity for this at some point.

Well, maybe, I mean, it is what it is.

It's authentically this, so Magda Gerber is the person that we're referring to.

So when you explain to people what is that you do as a consultant and coach to families, but how do you, how do you introduce.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: I think the benefit for parents and caregivers is it helps 'em to feel more confident so they understand a child.

Developmentally, we can't rely on our intuitions.

People go to classes to learn how to drive a car.

It's beneficial to go to.

A class to learn about babies, to learn about toddlers.

And I think what most people to discover practicing these very simple principles that these simple principles and practices can have profound results, right?

Life can be easier.

They don't have to work so hard.

I mean, for me, I, I discovered rye when my son was nearly a year old, and.

I, I realized that I had just been working overtime and I had sort of played with him, kept him occupied, all these things so that it was
really impeding my ability to just sit back and observe him and get to know him and enjoy being with him because I was just so bloody exhausted

Nancy Giordano: Right.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: so hard, you know?

Nancy Giordano: part of that and then trying to, to, to train or to push or to shape or whatever those words are that we feel like we're doing in those moments as opposed to watching it reveal.

So can we step back?

And

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: Ry is a, again, a, a, a parenting or child rearing.

Approach.

Do

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Approach,

Nancy Giordano: Like how

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: approach, approach, because it really gives people specific practices to, to begin implementing and hopefully see some change.

Sort of the first thing that I always recommend people practice is slowing down.

You know, I was teaching a group in New York and I thought, oh dear, slowing down I better demonstrate this, you know?

And I said, so what do you, I demonstrated, I said, what do you think about that?

And they all.

There was this course of, that's ridiculous.

I can't move that slowly.

And I said, well, on the way to the subway tonight, practice moving slowly and see what you notice.

And the next day they said, oh my God, I noticed all these things that I just sped by before.

So for me, you know, as a former New Yorker, that was hard for me.

I imagined people practicing Tai Chi.

I mean, that's how slow with a young baby.

And then.

Practice telling the child what you're gonna do.

Before you do it,

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: I'm gonna pick you up.

Right.

I am gonna take off your diaper, whatever it is,

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: give them a few moments for sort of the penny to drop for them to process what you've said.

I mean, so much of sort of irritability and defiant behavior with a toddler is just a result of somebody moving too quickly, life's going too fast, and now that life is speeding up for most of us it's even more important to remember that.

Children don't move at that warp speed.

We've got to slow down and be present in that way.

Nancy Giordano: I could not agree more.

And I think when you get used to this, these practices, right, these ways of interacting, they become so second nature, and yet they seem so different than what the rest of the sort of default world.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: So again I'm just gonna take it one step back philosophically before we get into the

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: which is that it is this body of work.

There's this way of understanding how to interact with babies and

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: all the way through.

We'll talk about how the implications of this across the lifespan of the child.

I think as my children still have, you know, comments that they make about various things that are related to that, that I think are really profound and the

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Hmm.

Nancy Giordano: it's on a Futurist Mom podcast.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: I do think that this is about raising a child from the very beginning that has a sense of confidence and a sense of agency,
and a sense of feeling worthwhile inside the world because of these teeny little things that we did at the very beginning that seemed

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: But to your point, how these profound impacts.

So as you know, there was a, there was relational piece to it, to your point about being present and about how you speak to the child.

There was a fine motor piece, there was a gross motor piece.

There were a lot of things that helped us.

Think through how we were interacting with the child.

And so, yes, I remember the very first one and, and the way I describe it to people when I'm giving these examples is when you pick up an infant, you put your hands on the infant, settle for a moment and say, I'm picking you up now.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: You know, and either I'm gonna change your diaphra, I'm gonna give you to someone, we're gonna go to the park, whatever it is, and you

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: next.

But just that moment of just settling and putting your hands on an infant for a moment and letting them just prepare to be picked up,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Exactly.

Nancy Giordano: thing that is.

Deborah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: It is.

It is.

And you can feel it.

You can feel their chest relax, sort of.

Okay.

Now you're ready.

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

And

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: And we have a moment of connection before we do whatever we need to do.

Nancy Giordano: and trust,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yes.

Nancy Giordano: right?

So

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: like that, you know, that's, and, and so this idea of respectful parenting, I think is the way that I've, I was, I've sort of googling their current,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: understanding of r is described as respectful parenting.

Is

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: summed up?

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Yep.

Respect for the child, respect for ourselves.

I mean, Magda for me was sort of the first parenting educator I read who, who not only spoke about how to respect a baby and our interactions, but how to respect ourselves.

You know, she would always end class by sort of, what are you gonna do for yourself this week?

What do you mean?

For myself, I can't do anything for myself.

But don't you wanna go to a yoga class?

Don't you wanna go out to dinner with a friend?

You need to fill your cup.

If you're going to be able to take good care of your child, that's really important.

Intellectually or otherwise, you know?

Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: So this work that, so Magda Gerber, again, who we keep describing was a mother in Budapest.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: In Budapest and yeah.

And her mentor was a Hungarian pediatrician named Emmy Pickler,

Nancy Giordano: Yeah

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: who was quite revolutionary.

Nancy Giordano: she was.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah.

And I think sort of her most important contribution is this idea of natural gross motor development that we don't need to, and we should not prop children into positions they can't get into on their own.

That they're.

Giving them the space and the time to figure out how to move on their own.

Not only has an impact on their ability to move with pleasure and grace, but also they're learning how to learn.

They're figuring it out, you know, every I

Nancy Giordano: confidence, right?

That confidence that comes from being able to have put your place.

So Emmy Pickler, as I remember it was a pri pediatrician and practicing after World War ii.

She was working in orphanages and she wanted the outcome of the children in the orphanages to be as, to match that of children that had been in families.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: at that time, certainly the outcome of children that had been in orphanages was so much lower.

High rates of alcoholism, high

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: depression, unstable relationships, all that.

And she

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: to figure out how to navigate it differently.

And so that she had developed this set of practices that I think were also, I think around the relational parts of this,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yes.

Nancy Giordano: the, the growth

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

She, she, she asked herself, you know, if, if the mother of the parent can't be replaced, then.

Sort of what can we do in this setting to replicate it as best we can?

And she really focused on the caregiving.

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: you know, they're not, you're not, the most important thing about a diaper is not a new diaper's.

The relationship is the emotional connection.

And so the caregivers are instructed to really take their time, you know.

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: They had support staff so that they could take their time.

And the WHO did a study in the sixties and longitudinal study, and they interviewed, you know, young adults and they looked very much like the rest of the population who had grown up in intact families.

And it was really the caregiving piece I think that made all the difference.

Nancy Giordano: Right.

It's such an extraordinary thing.

And the way that I remember the, one of the early stories was, I guess the way Magda was introduced to it is that Magda had gone to see me or Dr. Pickler

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: child's pediatrician, and as she was describing what was going on for the child Dr. Pickler kept looking at the child and asking her to describe it.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: kept intervening and saying, no, no, no.

And she looked at it.

I was like, no, she can tell me.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: like a light bulb moment for Magda to realize that her child had the wherewithal to be able to describe their own needs or

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: on for them at that moment, or if nothing else, again, that trust and then happened between the doctor and the child

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: did tune in to the child.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

That even a young baby, I think at that point Marta's daughter was three or four.

Nancy Giordano: Oh,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: but if, but even a young baby has, has some level of competence.

They can communicate, they can cry.

When they need something.

So that means we don't have to hover, we don't even really, unless we live in a gigantic house, need to have a camera on them.

You know what I mean?

They can tell us.

So because the person who, who sees a young, a baby, a young child, is basically fragile and helpless.

They're going to respond to them differently, interact with them differently than somebody who believes that they have a level of competency, you know?

Per their developmental stage.

So it affects everything sort of the lens through which we see them, right?

Nancy Giordano: So you now have, you know, you live and breathe this, but we're gonna step back again to

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: not in the rye world, the day in the life of a rye baby.

And in terms of, so we're gonna start with, you know, baby, baby and

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: up.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: and again, because.

I think that the way that this starts from day one is the thing that patterns

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: of my sense of the world around me and my sense of self from that moment on.

So that's why I think that this conversation is so important to our conversation around the future.

So, you know, rye baby wakes up and cries for the things that it needs, right?

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: not like hour by hour, but

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Right?

Nancy Giordano: patterning of it, from what I remember, right.

Again, that you were very much there for the feeding.

For bathing, for diaper changes, for

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: of interaction of caregiving.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: you let the child explore on their own

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: long that they have the you know, the energy to do it, and you put 'em in age appropriate things on the floor.

I remember she would

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: a,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: A napkin

Nancy Giordano: right?

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: cotton nap.

Nancy Giordano: Yeah,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah,

Nancy Giordano: say a bandana, I

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: as you put into little tents around the baby and, and not right next to them, like a little bit so that they could move toward it.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: And learned to that they, again, that they could bring their own entertainment to them, didn't have to be designed for them.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

So I mean, really the A Baby's day is comprised of sleep and the caregiving routines, and we would say uninterrupted play.

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Sometime for uninterrupted play and then sometime maybe for high effect play, you know, animated with the parent, with the caregiver and that a simple daily life is a good thing.

You know, a simple daily routine.

You know, they don't need to go to go yoga with you.

Or whatever it might be.

You know,

Nancy Giordano: right, right.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: you can go and do that yourself, you know, and come back if you have somebody to take care of your child.

But a simple daily life because, that really helps them to develop a sense of they can anticipate what's coming next.

Nancy Giordano: Right.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

And when they have that predictability, it helps 'em to feel secure versus if we change it up all the time, sort of novel experiences may be interesting to us, but there's plenty of time for that down the road.

So in the beginning, keep it simple, you know?

Nancy Giordano: So you'll appreciate that from my first born.

And when he was born we had all the alphabet letters on the wall, like big

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: letters with the black and white socks, with heavy little rattles on the bottom of the feet, had music playing.

And I remember distinctly like changing the diaper and like singing the

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: for like

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah,

Nancy Giordano: like congregating some new language for him.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah,

Nancy Giordano: and I took him to the pediatrician for his four week checkup and he was just like.

Like shaking and you know, look, I'm somewhat

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah.

Nancy Giordano: than

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: sound like, but he wasn't like, you know, in danger.

But he was definitely like stressed and she was like, wow.

He's like really, really high strung, like, what's going on?

I'm like, what do you mean?

And at that point I was like, oh, right.

And really

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: he really needed quiet in the afternoon.

And at some point then I ended up putting like a little gauzy thing over his.

Little bucket.

'cause he loved being in that bucket and just wanted him to, he just wanted to tune out.

And I remember thinking, oh, but I'm not stimulating him that moment.

I'm not teaching him the world.

I'm not

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: things for him.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: learning to like lay back.

So this idea again of listening and observing again as I was going back into the work preparing for our conversation, right, this

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: to step back for a moment and observe about why a baby may be crying.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yes,

Nancy Giordano: Or what it is that they may be seeking in that moment before we rush in and assume that we have whatever the external answer is.

Is that how that,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yes.

Nancy Giordano: people through

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you know.

Every, every moment is stimulating to them.

So, you know, you, you demonstrated sort of touching their chest and making that contact before you pick them up that stimulation.

Right.

Feeling the breeze on their cheek for the first few times that stimulation.

I mean, life provides stimulation we don't need to add to it, you know?

Nancy Giordano: Or, or like, yeah, to manufacture it.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Yep.

Nancy Giordano: At the same time, you, you know, ahead.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: No, I was just gonna say, I was working with mom and at her home and we went into the backyard.

She had a young baby in her arms and she immediately started pointing to things leaf green, and her baby was looking at the clouds in the sky.

So, because she was so intent on teaching him, she completely missed what he was interested in.

You know, she might have said, oh, wow, you're looking at those clouds up there.

You know, it's, it's, it makes it so much easier for us too.

Nancy Giordano: So it's interesting, again, I've had three children.

They were all three years apart.

And I'll also say that for the third one, there was a very little slow time, right?

I

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: at three weeks.

She went to the barn and Bailey Circus at six weeks.

Like, you know, she was, she, I was nursing her while I'm pushing the other one on the

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah,

Nancy Giordano: there was much less of the graciousness

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah,

Nancy Giordano: like really quiet and watching, you know, every one of their.

Moves.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah.

I.

Nancy Giordano: I think that the difference was also I didn't fully pay attention to every single thing need that she had at every moment

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: you know, at ages that needed a lot of attention.

And so I think

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah,

Nancy Giordano: a gift for her

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: absolutely.

Nancy Giordano: a little more to her own devices.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

And maybe, you know, I would say, you know, maybe there's one diaper change during the day that the parent can really slow down.

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: that's it.

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: You know, we do what we can.

Nancy Giordano: Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There were a

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: And she had the gift of two siblings and you know, being immersed in all of that, you know?

Nancy Giordano: Totally.

And she's grown up to be the most amazingly social person,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: know, but again, that goes back to early personalities of how she walked into a room very differently than her older brother who would walk into a room.

And I remember going to rye classes.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: you know, lucky enough that I was able to go study or, or at least go to a baby class with a person who was influenced by rye.

We, again, we talked about this, not super dogmatic about it,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: Influenced by it.

But he always wanted to get to that room early.

Because for him, the environment being new was very overwhelming

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: system.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: literally to this day, perpetually run late.

And I'm like, scooting in right when that room is full.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah,

Nancy Giordano: and he and I had a little talk about it one day, like I'm saying this to an infant, but I'm just like, I know, I know you would like it to be different.

I'm really trying, but it's just not how I'm wired.

So we're just gonna have to figure this out together,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's the truth.

Nancy Giordano: of, yeah.

Right.

That's true,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Which is another thing to tell them the truth, you know, I blew it or whatever it is.

Or you know, you're upset.

Nancy Giordano: or maybe not even like, I think, again, trying not to put more pressure or like self-flagellate on something, but to

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: is this, and my need is that we're gonna try and figure out how to work it out

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

We're gonna have to compromise.

Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: But at least to acknowledge that you knew that they wanted something different, I

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: part of that respect piece.

So my oldest son he and I had a conversation over the weekend.

I told him that we were gonna do this podcast

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: reminding him about Ry 'cause he was less familiar.

Like he kind of forgot, like this had been an influential part of his upbringing.

we were talking about the also like not overpraising a child when they

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: motivation versus ex extrinsic motivation.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: And I remember actually going to one of the more strident classes and there was like a child who had done something and the parents were suffered really still, and no one clapped for them.

And it was a little like dry.

I would say I probably became, you know, Italian became bit more effusive, but I really believed in this idea that a child needed to develop their own internal sense of an

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Yes.

Nancy Giordano: performing

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: else.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Yep.

Nancy Giordano: do you wanna talk a little bit more about how.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: I mean, I re I remember distinctly in my son's class, this child, every time she did, so, I mean, she would walk by us like this with her, you know, looking at, are you looking at me?

And something would happen.

And then she would look at all of us as if, you know, she expected us to clap.

And the instructor said, oh, you know, let's try to.

Not look at her.

I think, you know, some, some adults had been in the habit of praising everything she did, and so she really had lost that thread of sort of internal motivation and what pleases me, she was doing everything for the audience.

So, I think that piece is really important.

You know, who cares?

What I think is interesting about this toy, for example, you know, just wait and see what the child is curious about and what they wanna do with it.

You know, invariably they're gonna be much more creative than anything I could come up with.

And how arrogant of me to think that what I think is interesting could be interesting to this young child.

Just, I, I feel like it's a way of.

Ry is a way of being with a child.

It's not necessarily doing things so differently.

It's a way of being present in a very different way.

Nancy Giordano: That's a really great way of describing it.

So, and Hugo asked an interesting question, though, my son, which is, does it then.

a sense of then attention seeking in a child in the sense that if it wasn't that someone was acknowledging a lot of the things that they were doing, did they grow up then feeling a need to have that somehow filled externally?

It was an interesting question that he had asked.

I

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: That is a really interesting question.

Nancy Giordano: Which

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah,

Nancy Giordano: you would think that you, I love the way that you framed.

It's like, what do I care?

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah.

Nancy Giordano: really great way of framing it right, and, and

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: back.

And he is a very self-motivated, he is a very, very successful young man.

But it was interesting that he had that question

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: that is interesting.

I think there's a difference between praise and say, you know, say a, a baby's trying to stack some blocks on top of each other, something like that.

There's a difference between good job, which is, what do you mean?

It's very nonspecific if nothing else.

There's, between that and celebrating with the child, you look really happy.

You've finally got the blocks to, you know, they didn't fall down.

You know, I mean, that's being celebratory, but it's different than, you know, the pat on the back just, you know, I'm in, I remember being at the playground every time a child went down the slide, somebody would say, good job.

I thought, oh, come on.

Nancy Giordano: Right,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: You know, it is just empty headed, and I think children pick up on that.

You know, they pick up on the it, it, it's just almost insincere.

It's just, just idle chatter.

Nancy Giordano: Yeah, I mean, I think, again, it's always that balance between, I think that the parents are coming at it with the best intention

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yes, yes.

I'm glad you said that.

Nancy Giordano: with the

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yes,

Nancy Giordano: As the child did that, and they think that this is their

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yes,

Nancy Giordano: connecting with the child is to celebrate

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yes.

I'm glad you said that.

Nancy Giordano: you know, to Well, because I think that that, you know, it's a tricky thing between wanting to feel as though you're engaged with your child and really

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: you're present.

And, you know, certainly with people who are working really hard, they wanna make sure those moments when they are on the playground with their child, they're really getting the most from those moments.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: And letting the child discover the joy of some of that themselves or to

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: earlier where you don't even put the child on the slide until they're ready to climb up on their, by themselves.

Certainly I put Hugo in the swing because he loved, loved, loved swinging, and that was just his thing.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: aware of, you know, how much are they just like initiating and feeling confident going up the steps?

They get them to slide down because it's also really weird to put 'em at the top of the step and then the slide, and then have them slide down and be like, where did that just come from?

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Right.

How did I, how did I get up here?

Yeah, yeah,

Nancy Giordano: now?

Because I didn't feel myself elevate to get there.

I just got lifted

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah.

Nancy Giordano: So again, these micro, micro actions.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah, and I think what people discover, 'cause I, I realize my good job comment could have sounded very judgmental.

I don't mean it to be.

I think what people discover the more they practice this is that, you know, there's so many nonverbal ways that we can connect with a child
that they can see, they can look at our face and see that we are appreciating or excited about something that they've just done or experienced.

You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be this sort of.

Big event.

This, you know, a lot of words where it could just be a simple smile or Wow, you did it, you know?

Nancy Giordano: Point, reflecting how they feel about it, like you

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah.

Nancy Giordano: that that just happened, right?

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: now cut to, you know, my kids are teenagers and I'm at basketball practice with my daughter at one point, and I'm on my phone.

I'm doing my own thing while we're at practice, right?

And I'm

Scowls from other parents because I'm not appreciating every time that she's practicing a free throw.

And I'm looking to myself going, she's not doing this for me.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: She is literally doing this to enhance her skills.

She, you know, if anything the I, and this is how you can show how I impactful was for me.

I'm like, she should just be lucky that I signed her up and got her here on time for practice like my job.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Done.

Nancy Giordano: off the

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: like totally done.

Like, I'll be here for the game.

Of course, I wanna be able to, you know, celebrate the win or the loss or something, but I don't need to be here for every single moment of

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: No.

Nancy Giordano: like judging slash you know, celebrating every single thing that she did.

But it was a very, I remember that very clear moment of this other person, scowling.

I mean, so I think

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Really?

Nancy Giordano: also pressure that you want to do some of these things in a more spacious way or

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yes.

Nancy Giordano: your child more distance

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: other people make it feel as though that somehow you haven't done enough.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Right.

You're doing something wrong.

Yep.

I remember my, my friend said she was at the playground with her daughter, who was very agile, very self-confident, physically.

She was about three, and she climbed up to the top of the structure where the swings were, and she was just sitting at the top like a bird, just observing everyone.

And my friend was enjoying observing her, like, wow, how cool.

And then she noticed all the other parents of the playground were looking.

At the mother, at her sort of, why, why are, why aren't you going close?

Why are you letting her?

And because she, she trusted her.

She knew how capable she was, you know, so it can be hard to be that lone wolf, you know?

Nancy Giordano: we're, you know, again, 28 years later from my experience and Ry has been in the world for 50 or 60 years, I think at this point.

It was like in the

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep, yep.

Nancy Giordano: Magda brought it to California.

So where has the growth been or the influence, like how has Ry either advanced or not?

Because I feel like you hear so much about other.

parenting philosophies or certainly education philosophies like Montessori,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah,

Nancy Giordano: of always either comparison or wondering like, you know, how do Montessori become so well known?

And rye is

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah, yeah.

Nancy Giordano: one is parenting.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Right.

Nancy Giordano: do parenting things just fall in and out of vogue or where do you think that r and its understanding or influences now?

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: I think in professional circles in say childcare, I think a lot of mata's ideas are considered to be best practice.

Not everybody knows the origin story of those practices in terms of parenting styles, you know, it's something I think that frustrates those of us who work with Ride that is
sort of this slow growth model because in order to train somebody it, it takes a good deal of time and sometimes they're addressing their own inner issues as well in order to,

Nancy Giordano: a key part of it.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: you know, so it's not this thing that you can just sort of, fast track somebody, you know, I worked in.

Up until the pandemic, I worked a lot in China and they have no, they had no history of, I mean, they knew a lot about Montessori, but they didn't know anything about caring for babies and no policies to protect them and et cetera.

And you know, one thing I came up against over and over again, just culturally, you know, things were happening so quickly there and developing so quickly and it was very exciting.

And so people came with the same expectation.

What do you mean it's gonna take.

This long to be trained because it, this is how long it takes.

Everybody needs to practice till they internalize it, you know?

Nancy Giordano: when you say training you meaning in a caregiving setting as opposed to as a parent at home.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: I mean, no, not as a parent at home.

I'm glad you're clarifying.

No, I'm saying in terms of being sort of a rye professional instructor who can go out into the world and train other people, train parents, teach parents for
parents, I think I. If it speaks to them, I think within, you know, a pretty short period of time, they can internalize these ideas, just like slowing down.

If they do nothing else but slow, slow down and move at their child's pace that's gonna make a big difference.

I don't think that takes a lot of time.

Nancy Giordano: I think so too.

I think, I think it's really an orientation, right?

We were talking about my, my business book Leadering that you graciously spent some time with.

Thank you.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: a lot about it as a mindset as

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: playbook.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yes.

Nancy Giordano: I feel like it's interesting 'cause I was trying to find, I did have a rye manual at one point that turquoise.

I

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Uhhuh.

Nancy Giordano: I'm talking about

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: not find it.

I've been like racked my bookshelves.

I still have like every book almost I've ever owned, and for some reason I can't find that one.

so I was really disappointed because I think there was, you know, a whole thing that was written out about ways that we could approach this.

But now in

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: now my rear view vision, it feels much, much simpler than I think it may have actually appeared at the time.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: and I think that the most, to your point, I think the biggest challenge was that it went against social norms.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: Of how families were thought it was important to interact with our children back in the day, or if I was hiring a caregiver trying to
teach that caregiver to go against everything that she had thought and been taught about how she was supposed to, you know, entertain my child at every

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: and you know, anticipate every need

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: And so it was really was a reprogramming.

that.

Have you seen, you know, you've worked with parents now for a very long time.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: It's great for me to hear that in childcare settings, the, the rye approach is considered best practice.

That was amazing.

'cause back in the day that certainly wasn't the case.

So that's huge, huge

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

It doesn't mean everybody's practicing it.

It just me.

Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: but at least it's, it's known enough as a way of doing that in a, in a bigger group setting.

That's phenomenal.

For the parents that you meet today, both mothers and fathers is it feel more intuitive and more naturally the way that they would in, you know, make sense to them?

Or do you think they're even more, productivity conscious or more outcome driven?

That it is even more

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: I really think it depends on the population.

I mean, I very often I'm teaching in big cities.

If I go to a workshop or you know, teach a small parent group, I may be in a big city and, you know, I. A lot of these parents are very successful in their work, in the work
world, that environment, and so they just want, you know, a fast and sort of, no, no, no, this isn't, you're not gonna stick your head in a book and get this, this is about
practicing it, you know, and so maybe very sort of counter-cultural for them in that way, or that it just really, you know, and also that they, you know, what's the benchmark?

How do I know when I'm, you know, sometimes people say, well, what would Rye say about this?

Or Was this very rye?

And I say, well, what did it feel like to you?

What there is no rye police, you know,

Nancy Giordano: Right.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: how did it feel?

Did it feel natural?

Hmm.

Not yet.

Well keep going.

You know, keep having a whack at it and see if you can, you know,

Nancy Giordano: that to your point, your own story about what does it mean to good parent.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: in the mix of this, I wouldn't say in the way, but is in the mix of

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: So as I was becoming more and more exposed to this, and I did have the opportunity to go and spend two weeks in at the time R hq taking the kind of initial training that you would do if you were gonna be an instructor.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: I wanted to be one, but because I wanted to

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: I was

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: curious enough to want to really dig in and took time off from work and I more concentrated time doing it, which I thought was great.

But then even then, with that understanding, I still came back and like I really wanted to rock my baby in a rocking chair because

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: thing that made me feel really,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: to the baby.

And even though, you know, the, the rye philosophy would've said that I'm maybe robbing my child, child of his own agency to understand and self-soothe, it was important for me to feel connected.

him at that moment.

So,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: and I think we have to, oh, sorry.

I think we have to remember the origins coming from the orphanage.

So the direction to the caregivers, you know, is very, very specific.

So that, you know, if, if each child had three different caregivers over a 24 hour period, the way that adults would interact with them was very, very similar.

You know, and so it doesn't have to be like applied that way in a, in a family.

If somebody wants to rock in a rocking chair, rock in a rocking chair,

Nancy Giordano: I did, I

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: you know?

So did I. It was great.

I loved it.

You know.

Nancy Giordano: But I did not do a mobile right.

And

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Nope, no.

Nancy Giordano: do like the, the, the toy that's underneath where

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: again, when you do the right training, what I thought was so interesting is I remember being laying on the floor and, you know,
imagining that you are a, a newborn or a very early infant and that your hands are just coming across and just like being like super excited.

And for those who are listening, I'm like imagining putting my hands in front of my face.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: and then moving them slowly away, like how magical that was.

And I didn't need

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: else

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: But then I also think, you know, this idea that you don't turn your baby over and you don't flip them.

You do all this stuff.

Like my, again, my firstborn was a very big kid.

He was tall and he like, was always hungry.

And he was a very slow, gross motor kid

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: He had more to move.

Nancy Giordano: Yeah, long time and, and partly more to move and partly he was so fascinated by the world around him.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Oh,

Nancy Giordano: Debra, he was just, he is literally, to this day, he's literally an aerospace engineer.

He's,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: huh.

Nancy Giordano: you know, sending rockets into space.

Like for him, like looking up was so di interesting.

And my

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: How

Nancy Giordano: one was a much more like, you know, like, he's like the parkour.

Kind of guy rolled over suddenly and he loved being like down.

Like he loved being able to figure out what was going on in front of him.

Like he had a very different orientation to learning and what

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: How interesting.

That's so interesting.

Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: interesting.

Right.

But to have the patience to wait for Hugo to roll over and feel like I wasn't, like somehow not doing something to, to help encourage him to learn how to move his body was hard.

And, you know, and then when I give other people an example of sitting up, it's, you know, when you plop a child up and you set a child up, their
legs are in front of them and they have no center of gravity and they're trying to figure out how just to stay up and not fall over to one side.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: When you observe a child learning to sit up, right?

They put one knee in, like one leg in front of them, like has a triangle and one leg behind them is a triangle.

And they really anchor themselves in a

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Exactly.

Nancy Giordano: way of sitting, which then

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: all the, the, you know, the stability to be able to move to whatever side and to be able to get up.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: Right.

Just remembering that

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: right, and trusting that

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: take a significant amount of patience as a parent who wants to be able to, you know, make sure they're their kid the visibility or whatever they need and they're doing it right.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: And that's why it is so helpful to have support because I remember,

Nancy Giordano: yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: know, this child in my class, you know, one of the grandparents was Ry instructor, the other parent.

You know, on the other side was a pediatrician.

So the pediatrician was saying, she should be walking by now.

This is a problem.

You shouldn't get her evaluated.

So the mother would come to class every week practically in tears, she said, but my mom says there's nothing to be concerned about, et cetera, et cetera.

Finally, a 21 months this child took her first step in rye class and we all started to weep.

But boy was it, you know, sort of.

This mom was just so, it was so hard for her, but she just sort of stuck to it and kept her father-in-law at bay as much as she could.

And this child, it's not just when they hit a milestone, it's how they moved.

Do they have pleasure in moving?

Nancy Giordano: Right.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: they move with grace and ease, or is it sort of difficult?

And effortful so.

Nancy Giordano: And are

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: It is a different lens.

It's a different lens, and it helps to have support along the way for sure, for any parent, no matter how they're parenting.

Everybody needs support,

Nancy Giordano: Right.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: which is what I'm trying to figure out, sort of, it's hard to deliver this to everybody.

I mean, I've had, I, I've had ideas about delivery systems to certain populations.

But that's, that's one of the challenges, you know.

Nancy Giordano: Well now we have multiple generations though, of Rye families.

And as you're seeing the children grow older, you know, so one of the story that I often tell, we talk about authentic choice was a big part of what I learned in my rye classes, and I remember sure, it was part of Magda's.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: philosophy or not, but you know, with Donna Holleran, we talk a lot about this idea of an authentic choice.

When you're at a playground and you're, you know, ready to leave, you don't ask the child if they're ready to leave unless you give them permission to have an a a point of view on it.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: ask them if they're ready to go and they say no, and you pack up anyway, then it was really that, back to your point about a useless question,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: And if you don't have any more time, then you don't give them the question and you just, you know, acknowledge that it's difficult for them to leave their friends

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: and, you know, tell 'em whatever else you wanna tell them about where you're going or not afterwards.

that was really, really helpful for me,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: and learning how to have a more respectful dialogue with my children as they were growing.

So now cut to my son.

My middle son is 17 and I really wanna go to the mall and I wanna go with him.

And so I'm like, so do you wanna go to the mall with me today?

He's like, no, and I like start cajoling and start like selling it and you know, trying to like whatever, and he just stops on his track goes.

That was not an authentic choice.

Like,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Oh, I love it.

Nancy Giordano: I'm like there, but

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: so well.

Nancy Giordano: to the mall with me.

But I think these things carry through.

I guess that's part of what I'm trying to

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: They do.

Nancy Giordano: Right.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: do.

Nancy Giordano: have you seen, you know, in the families that have really stuck with it over time and really have committed to it, like a different way in which those kids walk through the

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah, I do.

I mean, it's anecdotal.

I wish there could be research.

I mean, I remember my, when my son was in third grade and the kids were lining up to go on a field trip, they're waiting for the bus driver to open the door, and he was.

Talking to the kid behind him and he didn't realize the doors had opened.

And so this parent chaperone, she said he came home and he said she put her hands on my shoulder very roughly.

And she said, Elijah, pay attention.

Why did she have to do that?

Why couldn't she have just said, Elijah, it's time to get on the bus?

Nancy Giordano: Right.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: he knew, you know, in third grade, second grade, whatever it was sort of the difference between sort of.

Being respected and being disrespected.

He felt, and he was right on because he was a child.

You know?

And then I know, you know, some young adults, I think what they all have in common is they have a really a good sense of, you know, they have strong emotional intelligence.

You know, they can follow the breadcrumbs if they're feeling upset about something.

This, this is the origin of that upset.

You know what I mean?

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: And, and I think that has to do with, there must be some impact in another habit that we practice, which is narrating

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: going on.

You know, you're upset.

You're upset.

'cause he, you know, you're holding the toy and now she is.

It's hard.

That's a hard thing when two kids want the same toy.

You know, so they, they build that awareness and also that vocabulary for their feelings.

I think that's really important in terms of mental health outcomes.

Nancy Giordano: Absolutely.

And I think that that sense that what you want or what you feel or what you need is important,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: We talk about these moms that deny themselves the ability to go do the things that they need to go do, but I think as people, we often shut a lot of that stuff down.

I know men, as many men who deny some of the things that they need, both in terms of feelings and just in terms of needs.

so I think that the respect for.

The thing that you're both observing, the thing that you're feeling, the thing that you're needing, the thing that you're doing, the place that you're going, like, that to me is the fun, most fundamental part of creating someone.

I remember Magda, I think was part of, at the same time, I think I was doing a lot of my early futurist work, right?

When we're talking about the jobs we're gonna be people, were gonna have these jobs that didn't even exist yet

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: X amount of years.

And I feel like it was magor someone in the group that asked this, like, so what are the.

The qualities or what are, what are the capacities that we want someone to have to be able to thrive into the future if

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: know what that work is gonna look like or what that environment is gonna look like.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

That was mata

Nancy Giordano: Yeah.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: and in that, in that video, seeing infants with new eyes, and I'm teaching a course now and I was showing it and I thought, boy, if she could only see how the world has changed, you know how prescient that comment was.

So true.

Nancy Giordano: responded to that then, right where around confident.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: and around where were they?

I haven't seen that video in a long time.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: You know, curiosity, problem solving, resilience, tenacity you know, and that.

That gets baked in very early.

A good example of this is when children first roll over onto their tummy and maybe they can stretch their arms in front of them, but they can't move yet.

They're not crawling.

So a child came to class, it was her first class.

Something was just beyond her fingertips.

There was nothing else around, you know, there was this ball she wanted.

So her mother reached out her very long, impossibly long legs and pushed this ball towards the child, and the child picked it up, you know, because
the child had only tried for about 10 seconds to reach it on her own before we all heard this whimper cut to another class child at the same stage.

He couldn't reach it and he spent.

A good half an hour on his belly, just watching everybody in the room.

He was very fascinated by it all, and when he'd had enough, he cried.

His mom picked him up.

The next week he came to class.

We covered the mat at that stage with a cotton bed sheet, probably like in the classes you went to.

Right.

So the next time he came to class again, there was something just beyond his fingertips.

And he practiced.

And he practiced and he got hold of the bed sheet and he pulled it up and the to slid towards him.

He problem solved.

You know, he never looked over his shoulder to his mother and his mom said, oh, he's been perfecting this all week at home, you know, but it required.

The parent to sit back and so then it, and you know, then this whole conversation about how uncomfortable it can be to watch a child.

Struggle.

And then we, we determined that whose struggle is it?

The struggle very often belongs to the adult.

For this baby, with the picking, he wasn't struggling.

He was curious, well, hmm, how can I, how can I solve this problem for myself?

And when he did, oh, he was so excited.

And had she had, she solved it for him, she would've robbed him of that.

So it starts from the very beginning.

Nancy Giordano: Right.

So, so, so beginning and then you, again, you magnify that out to the world that we want right now, which is to have confident problem solvers who feel as though you know that their opinions and what they believe matter.

So,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: as we're rounding this out, the one thing that was also a big, huge gift to me in Rye was that I feel like it did give me a chance to take a breath as a parent.

And I felt like I didn't have to be doing all the time and performing all the time, and it made the job of parenting or the role of parenting so much more pleasant.

As I was going through it.

And and, and, yeah, just, just, easier, I dunno how to explain it.

Like I just, the, the load was not so heavy on my shoulders, right.

I had a chance to

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: into it more, and I think that was one of the wishes I have for parents right now who feel this incredible sense of responsibility
and confusion around how to prepare their child for the future and wanna make sure that they're doing everything, quote unquote again, right?

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: overextend themselves.

In all these ways.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: so, any words of, you know, wisdom to parents or things that you've observed?

I think again, people are afraid of becoming parents for many reasons, but one of the reasons is they feel like the load is so heavy,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: approaching it from a rye

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: or rye window allows you to sink into it in a really different way.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: It does.

I mean, I think children take their cues from us.

I mean, and so if we can demonstrate confidence and competence and you know, I'm steering the ship, it's gonna be all right.

You know, then they, they internalize that and so that when they're older, when know they, yeah, we have a lot of challenges, things that we have to figure out.

So let's figure 'em out, you know, not, let's not live in fear, let's.

Figure 'em out and, and sort of, you know, work together kind of thing.

I think just remembering how important it, you know, your children are, are absorbing things, noticing things about your behavior all the time.

You're the model and so the place to always start us with us.

So if I'm feeling insecure about the world, then you know, I better go talk to somebody so I can calm down a little bit,

Nancy Giordano: well,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: you know.

Nancy Giordano: what the whole podcast hopefully does, is to try and give some perspective on that.

But I think that even the, that, you know, the fact that your child's watching all the time is also something that makes us feel.

And I, and a lot pressure, right?

What I eat and when I'm pregnant to what it is that,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Oh,

Nancy Giordano: how I gave birth to all.

Like, I feel like every single thing

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Hmm,

Nancy Giordano: now going to have this like massive imprint on this child forever.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: hmm.

Nancy Giordano: that for me, in some ways, r was almost the opposite of that, which is I can put them down on a mat, on a on a sheet

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: do their own thing for a while and they're gonna

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah, they're gonna be fine.

Nancy Giordano: With that, and they're really more absorbed with their own hands and their own toy than what it is that I'm doing over here.

So I

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Yeah,

Nancy Giordano: to go do the thing that I

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah.

Nancy Giordano: I think energetically, you're right from a feelings perspective, but

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: perspective, you get to have a chance to have a little bit of separation

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah, if you just create that safe space, a hundred percent safe space, then you can have separation and your child can enjoy doing what they wanna do in the safe space.

And they don't have anybody hovering over them saying, oh no, don't do that.

That's not safe, blah blah.

That's not a toy.

Because really, if I was thwarted all morning long, you know, by the time you asked me to cooperate with you, I would say no.

Nancy Giordano: Right,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: You know,

Nancy Giordano: That is very, very, very true.

I remember

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: right?

Nancy Giordano: really large, we had an extra large round playpen and

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: we used to put the child in there and then you can go pee.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: do the things that you need to go do.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: exactly.

It makes your life easier.

Nancy Giordano: I, if I can do it on the floor.

Yeah.

I think that's what I'm trying to say.

It makes life easier.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: as opposed to harder.

And one last thing actually, I'll say on the narrating things, you're right, you do narrate all the time what's going on with the child as part of this this practice, this habit that you get into.

And it feels so awkward when you don't do it.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Okay.

Nancy Giordano: was a story that was told actually in one of the classes about a mother who was having a very, very, very tough day.

Like it was just, she'd hit the, you know, she'd hit the wall and she was about to strike her child.

And she said, I'm going to, and then she caught herself.

Because in the reflection of being able to narrate what was about to happen, she caught herself obviously from doing it.

And

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: of just in the reflection of just giving you a moment to understand what you are actually feeling,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yes.

Nancy Giordano: was such a, you know, I mean, it's a dramatic story,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: in day-to-day life we don't even realize what's happening.

And then I think again, to your point, to be authentic in the conversation about what just happened, I got really, really upset just now.

And that

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: you feel really scared in that moment.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah,

Nancy Giordano: just being able to own it as opposed to beating yourself up for them thinking you were the world's worst mother,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Nancy Giordano: was also really trying to be more expansive around this,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: is such a gracious to be.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: Well, we'll see.

I mean, you know, I don't know if you're playing on being a grandparent.

I'm really hoping that one of my three.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: you know, ends up, if not all three gifting me this opportunity.

And

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah,

Nancy Giordano: interesting to see if, you know, Ry Next Generation is as adopted by the, the spouses

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: yeah, yeah.

Nancy Giordano: they're gonna come with their own stories and

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: That's right.

Nancy Giordano: were raised.

And it's gonna come a whole nother version of this.

So.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: is a, a group of Ryan, instructor grandmas, who just get together and talk because their motto, you know, the motto is to keep their mouth shut around their children and their grandparents.

Nancy Giordano: I have to join that club.

I have a whole new club to join

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

There you go.

Nancy Giordano: Well, maybe someday you and I'll like take Rye and Leadering and we'll figure out what the mashup is for

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: There you go.

Nancy Giordano: like longer term view.

Because I think, again, rye is very focused on zero to three.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: I think you're working, you know, extends it into toddlerhood, but I really do think that this is a lifetime way of thinking about things.

And I think that the way that we set things up and, you know, the very first, the, the very beginning day one,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yep.

Nancy Giordano: Is the thing that allows us all to re-pattern the future in a much healthier, much more secure, much more respectful,

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: hopefully much happier way.

So

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: that you were doing around the world to help get us from here to there.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Ah.

Thank you for having me.

It's been so much fun to talk with you

Nancy Giordano: Thanks for taking me back into the, the, the origin of all this stuff because I think

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: back in time.

Nancy Giordano: I will say that I have the head of an analyst and like the soul of an artist, but the heart of a mother, and I

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Oh.

Nancy Giordano: all children on the planet to feel as well held as I was able to learn to do.

The work that you all do.

So thank you again for that and well, let's just hope that it radiates out so that both parents and children can take a deep breath and feel

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yes.

Yes.

Nancy Giordano: Amen.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: amen.

That's a beautiful wish.

Nancy Giordano: Thank you, Deborah.

And we'll make sure that people know how to find you if they're looking for resources around this and, you know, so just to find, you teach individual classes, group classes.

You go around the world, like what is the nature of your work right now?

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: I do workshops, I do courses.

I do one-on-one.

Nancy Giordano: Okay.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: You know, center-based consulting.

Nancy Giordano: All right.

We will

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Yeah.

Nancy Giordano: people can find you and we can help spread the word.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: Great.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Nancy.

Nancy Giordano: Take good care.

Deborah Carlisle Solomon: You too.